What is the Saturn Polar Configuration? How could you physically get planetary shishkebab alignments in a Saturncentric solar system? A basic framework of the very different Saturnian reconstructions can be explained as the planets were in a different orders with Saturn the central star or main body of our very local or the whole proto-Sun system. Earth was a satellite of proto-Saturn (brown dwarf star type or Original Sun or etc) but our view of it was from relatively fixed position, it loomed and ruled above our Pole. This was remembered as our Golden Age. Different physical mechanisms, arrangements and chronology for all the models inspired by Immanuel Velikovsky, David Talbott’s Saturn Myth and Wallace Thornhill’s Thunderbolts Electric Universe theories.
A picture is worth a 1000 words and back in the day these diagrams, let along this video of Saturn Polar Configurations would have been priceless.
Lastly, as I mentioned, I could not accept the postulate of the Earth located below the south pole of Saturn as an a priori condition. Nothing in all our experience with the paths of planets or satellites indicates that this would be remotely possible as an initial condition at any time in the past. Secondaries revolve around their primaries at the equator of the primaries, they do not hang suspended sub-polar. Yet, I would have to accept the sub-polar configuration at least as a required condition at some later time, for all of the Saturn imagery describes this.
The possibility of Earth being recaptured by Saturn as a satellite is virtually nil. Capture requires a forward motion which not only matches the passing planet, but requires passage on the outward side of the capturing planet (away from the Sun), and then a sudden change in direction and dramatic change in speed to become a satellite. If a planet were to meet Saturn equatorially the planet might be moved electrically into a larger or smaller Solar orbit. It would not end up orbiting Saturn as a satellite.
But if Saturn and another planet could override each other, placing one above the other (which could easily happen because the orbits of all the planets are tilted at different angles), this would be an entirely different condition. This would not change the orbits around the Sun of either Saturn or the planet. They would ride the path around the Sun together.
Below the Pole of Saturn – A Saturnian Cosmology | Jno Cook
List of topics you can read below:
# Saturn Polar Configurations explained
# History of different Saturnian Models
# Thunderbolts information of Saturn alignments
# Debunking Saturn Polar Configuration theories and models
# Life on Earth in Saturn configurations?
# Saturnian cosmologies articles and sites
# Plasma catastrophism and Immanuel Velikovsky inspired mythology sites
One summary of the David Talbott and Thunderbolts Thesis for his polar alignment might be:
A wandering brown dwarf proto-Saturn system with Earth living in its inner plasmaspheres of environment, electromagnetic interacted with another stars system (proto-Sol) and formed a larger Saturn based ‘solar’ system. Where Saturn reigned as king always seated above Earth’s polar regions. This Garden of Eden eventually ended, the alignments broke up and we catastrophically moved into this present orbital arrangement.
History of Saturnian Models and Mechanisms
The Velikovsky Encyclopedia has a good quick introduction to the different Saturnian Myth cosmologies. Below this are quotes about some of the earlier Saturnian cosmologies and links to information, websites, videos and books. Dave Talbott’s and Thunderbolts Saturn Mythology is further down the page.
The Saturn Theory (also: Saturn Model, Saturn Myth, Saturn Configuration) is the idea based on comparative mythology, that the Earth was once in closer proximity, or even a satellite of the planet Saturn, which appeared like a sun. It has received criticisms on both mythological and physical grounds.
Sun-like Saturn, and nova-like: A number of researchers have suggested that in mythology, Saturn is sometimes referred to as a night sun, and having gone through a nova-like phase
Earth as a satellite of Saturn: Several authors have independently suggested that mythological sources and ancient texts, lead to the conclusion that the Earth was once a moon of the planet Saturn
Saturn Theory Models:
* Polar configuration
* Earth as Saturn’s satellite (Modified-Philolaos model)
* Barbell model
Theodore Holden and Troy McLachlan in their Cosmos in Collision book and the Ganymede Hypothesis (link to PDF) suggests that Herbig-Haro objects (HH) are an example of how planet Earth, Saturn and other planets can form a permanent alignment.
Solaria Binaria by Alfred de Grazia and Earl R Milton in 1984 (pre and not Thunderbolts EU canon or not about Saturn but gives a general idea of the barbell model):
THE SOLAR SYSTEM AS A BINARY: Contrary to the hypothesis that the Solar System was born as and has evolved as a single star system, it is here claimed that the Solar System was and is a binary system.
The binary system was formed when the primitive Sun fissioned. Several planets were generated in the neck of the fissioning pair and co-revolved about the Sun synchronously with the companion (see Figure 1). The remaining planets were generated, one or more at a time, in several episodes, as the companion became unstable because of a changing galactic environment which we will discuss in Chapter Three.
Solaria Binaria | Alfred de Grazia and Earl R Milton
If this article looks long and confusing then there is an excellent easy summary in Planet Amnesia’s article Saturnian Cosmology.
Saturn Configuration explained
Below are quotes and links to articles that try to describe what the Saturn Configuration was and the ideas behind it. At the bottom is a section for articles debunking planetary Polar Configurations (if you know of any more please post a link to them in the comments).
the theory posits that the neighboring planets only recently settled into their current orbits, the Earth formerly being involved in a unique planetary configuration of sorts together with Saturn, Venus, and Mars. As the terrestrial skywatcher looked upwards, he saw a spectacular and awe-inspiring apparition dominating the celestial landscape. At the heart of heaven the massive gas giant Saturn appeared fixed atop the North polar axis, with Venus and Mars set within its center like two concentric orbs (see figure one, where Venus is the green orb and Mars the innermost red orb). The theory holds that the origin of ancient myth and religion—indeed the origin of the primary institutions of civilization itself—is inextricably linked to the appearance and evolutionary history of this unique congregation of planets.
The Saturn Theory | Ev Cochrane
According to the Saturn Polar Configuration theory, not more than 6,000 years ago our ancestors lived in a very different world, with a heavens in a different configuration than today. The planets were not far away from the Earth, but overhead, in conjunction above the North Pole. These planets were Saturn, Venus and Mars. Saturn was the primary orb, and was originally not a planet, but a sub-brown dwarf star.
Saturn Polar Configuration | dharmasanctuary.org
What the ancients were seeing when they depicted the Sun as three concentric discs was a different alignment of planets from what we see in the sky today. They suggest that at one time Earth was in a polar alignment – an alignment Talbott, Cardona, and Cochrane theorize as having been with Saturn, Venus and Mars; – the large outer disc in the pictographs being Saturn, the next inner disc representing Venus (often with rays emanating from it) and the center dark or red disc being Mars.
The view of a crescent with a star-like body at its center is impossible if our moon were the crescent. However, it would indeed be the scene viewed from Earth in its polar alignment if the crescent were Saturn, somewhat illuminated by the Sun, and the star-like object, Mars, being superimposed upon Venus.
Our Universe – Unlocking It’s Mysteries | Dr Donald E Scott
Thornhill proposed in 2001 that the Saturnian System, including the planets Earth and Mars (he does not believe that Venus was part of this group) first entered the Solar System in circa 3200 BC and approached from below at an angle of 24 degrees to the ecliptic. (The ecliptic is the band more or less at the level of the Sun’s equator in which all the planets move, but actually is defined as the orbit of Earth around the Sun.)
This suggestion solved the problem posed by the continuous change in the spin axes of the planets required by the shishkebab model. The spin axes of all the planets would now remain unchanged as the Saturnian System (sort of) corkscrewed into a circular orbit on approaching the plane of the ecliptic. After a relatively quiet period, during the “Era of the Gods,” the three planets would join the other solar planets, although not until a number of violent interactions displaced Saturn, Mercury, and Mars to more distant locations (plus a relocation of the nearby Jupiter). Thornhill estimated that the corkscrewing action would have taken less than 300 years.
By the Talbott / Thornhill model, Earth would have existed within the glow level plasma discharge (the coronal envelope) of Saturn before the intersection with the Solar System, and within the memory of mankind. This condition would have provided an amount of light which did not vary from day to night. The stars and other planets might have been invisible, and perhaps not even Saturn would have been seen — just the “waters above.”
Then, as Thornhill would suggest, on approaching the Solar System from deep space, and finding itself in a space dominated by the electric field of the Sun, Saturn would shrink its discharge envelope until Mercury, Mars, and Earth were located outside the sphere of visible discharge. On approaching the Sun, Saturn would become visible in the “waters above” as a giant globe hovering in the sky at the North Pole.
The Talbott / Thornhill model – A Saturnian Cosmology | Jno Cook
In the best reconstruction so far, Saturn was the central illuminating body that sat nearly motionless in the heavens above the North Pole. Saturn was our original sun, a sub-brown dwarf star that itself came to orbit around our current sun. Depending on which Saturnian theorist you embrace, Saturn either carried with it, or recaptured the other solar planets in a sub and supra-polar conjunction, the planets strung out like beads on a piece of hanging twine, the whole edifice orbiting around the sun.
… Saturnian cosmology can be broken down into three periods, the middle being the great reign of benevolence when the massive planetary conjunction was most stable and the skies had cleared so humans could see what was going on. For Saturnians, the beginning of this period is recognized as the ‘time of creation,’ the basis for most indigenous creation myths.
Prior to this time, there are a few different credible scenarios on how this formation came into being. They each explain how Saturn came to be influenced by the sun, having been captured by it, and possibly assisted by the agency of a massive Jupiter, which was never part of the Saturn system.
Saturnian Cosmology | Planet Amnesia
Video presentation explaining Saturn System Configurations, presented at a Society for Interdisciplinary Studies meeting by Wayne Burn.
Thunderbolts Polar Configurations and Saturn Myth
There are different theoretical configurations of the planets, moons and what was the original star of our solar system. David Talbott and Thunderbolts Saturn Polar model is just one of them but is the main proposed EU theory model, and a basis for the Thunderbolts interpretation of comparative mythology.
Most mythology around the world suggests a Golden Age (Garden of Eden), this is suggested to be when planet Earth was in Saturn’s plasmasphere.
Then something happened to the Saturn System or our Solar System, this is remembered in folklore and perhaps the human consciousness as Doomsday, the sky falling on our heads. During this event either the planets changed their order and orbits or Earth left Saturn’s electromagnetic environment.
After the planet Gods fighting each other with cosmic thunderbolts, wars, takeovers etc our solar system eventually settled down into the calm that we have known for perhaps the last 1 or 2 thousand years. Which is why the incredible tales of cosmic chaos, worlds in collision, makes no sense to us.
Official Talbott Thunderbolts theories appear to be split into distinct parts. The main two parts are the very serious and scientific space side that is about interpreting and explaining the universe from a plasma point of view – plasma is ionized gas, electrically charged gas that makes up around 99.5% of everything that we can see in the universe, hence the ‘Electric Universe’. Based and developed on the works of Hannes Alfvén and plasma cosmology, Anthony Peratt, Kristian Birkeland and others.
The other main part of the EU theory is what may be best described as ‘plasma mythology‘. It is based on plasma cosmology and the Electric Universe but it is also heavily influenced by ancient texts, mythology and cultural lore that describe a very different and active solar system. Another massive influence and the origin of it is the works of Immanuel Velikovsky.
It is mainly from ancient descriptions of the Golden Age, the fall of man, Doomsday, the Comet Venus and especially Velikovsky, combining with plasma cosmology and Electric Universe theory that one of the most controversial ideas has come – the Saturn Configuration.
Can our solar system cosmology and previous planetary configurations be explained by Electric Universe theory and comparative mythology? Science has discovered similar types of water on a Saturn moon and Earth.
Some of the main leaders or proponents of the Thunderbolts Electric Universe theory, David Talbott, Dwardu Cardona and Wal Thornhill, have developed a theory of our solar system in a different planetary alignment, with perhaps it originating with not even the planets we see today. Below is a short introduction youtube video of Symbols of an Alien Sky, click on this link if you want to watch the full documentary.
The Saturn Polar Configuration theory is a real mind blowing idea. Obviously not everyone who has an interest in or is a dedicated follower of the Electric Universe theory believes in Talbott’s Saturn Myth. Even some of those who believe in it have their different version of what may have happened, much like any science theory or religion!
For a good explanation of the Saturn Configuration myth, with some appropriate images including ancient mythology, read The Saturn Myth on the Ev Cochrane site.
A couple of great introductions to and explanations of the Saturnian Theory are Saturn Polar Configuration (this also goes into background detail of the planets, planets as Gods and the Axis Mundi) and A Timeless Age in a Purple Haze (lots of unique images and diagrams explaining what the Polar Configuration looked like).
Life on Earth in the Saturn Configuration?
How would life on Earth be able to exist or flourish during its time in the Saturn Configuration or if it was captured by a brown dwarf star?
Since an electric star is heated externally a planet need not be destroyed by orbiting beneath its anode glow. In fact life is not only possible inside the glow of a small brown dwarf, it seems far more likely than on a planet orbiting outside a star! This is because the radiant energy arriving on a planet orbiting inside a glowing sphere is evenly distributed over the entire surface of the planet.
There are no seasons, no tropics and no ice-caps. A planet does not have to rotate, its axis can point in any direction and its orbit can be eccentric. The radiant energy received by the planet will be strongest at the blue and red ends of the spectrum. Photosynthesis relies on red light. Sky light would be a pale purple (the classical “purple dawn of creation”). L-type Brown Dwarfs have water as a dominant molecule in their spectra, along with many other biologically important molecules and elements. Its “children” would accumulate atmospheres and water would mist down. It is therefore of particular interest that most of the extra-solar planets discovered are gas giants, several times the size of Jupiter, orbiting their star extremely closely. It is our system of distantly orbiting planets that seems the odd one out. In fact it argues in favor of a galactic traffic accident between the Sun and a sub-Brown Dwarf like Jupiter or Saturn.
Other stars, other worlds, other life? | holoscience
This reality is one of the most important memories of the ancient world. The era when Saturn reigned was a time when Earth was bathed in light and warmth. According to many myths, humans had abilities far beyond what we have today. We could talk with the animals, had a radiant lightbody, could levitate or fly, and the veil between life and death was slight.
This massive Saturn entrained conjunction that lasted more than 1,000 years and possibly much longer, can be seen represented in the ubiquitous sculptural images of the so-called Venus figurines, aka the Michelin tire man with the bulbous curves. These curves were the outlines of the glow mode plasma comas that enveloped each planet. What a sight for our ancestors to contemplate and render in sculpture down through the ages! No wonder that we embraced this vision as an abode of the gods. For the gods were the planets and we watched and learned from them with awe and reverence. Everything they did, we desired to re-enact. As Above; So Below – that was our human motto.
… Scholars such as Dave Talbott, Dwardu Cardona, and other Thunderbolts Saturnians posit that prior to the final breakup of the Saturn complex, Earth had always been entrained with Saturn in the same conjunction. If so, the Earth had never become habituated to the sun, but lived under the diffuse light of Saturn, warmed uniformly over the entire globe by the continual outpouring of Saturn’s radiance, confined in a type of plasma bubble or hazy magnetosphere. In this view, man and nature had a very different existence than today, a type of perpetual ‘purple dawn,’ of dim light that stretched back into antiquity.
Saturnian Cosmology | Planet Amnesia
Saturn cosmologies: articles and sites
The Saturn Myth
THE SATURN THEORY by Ev Cochrane (pdf)
A Timeless Age in a Purple Haze
OUR UNIVERSE UNLOCKING ITS MYSTERIES
Saturn Polar Configuration
The Talbott / Thornhill model
Immanuel Velikovsky Encyclopedia – Saturn Theory
Red Ice Radio – David Talbott – Hour 1 – The Electric Universe & The Saturn Myth
Cardona Interview on Saturn Theory
Comparative Mythology – Saturnian Theory
The Road to Saturn by Dwardu Cardona
thunderbolts.info forum discussion
How it’s possible planets align in polar formation ?
Earth Was a Moon of Saturn
Saturn System Breakup 5,000 Years Ago
Cosmos in Collision (Saturn Configuration and Ganymede Hypothesis)
Saturnian Cosmology | Planet Amnesia
Plasma Mythology, Chronology and Immanuel Velikovsky
Marinus Anthony van der Sluijs and Plasma Mythology
Myths and Legends explained in an Electric Universe (everythings electric forum)
Mythology (Thunderbolts Picture of the Day archive)
Immanuel Velikovsky Encyclopedia
Immanuel Velikovsky and the Neo-Catastrophism Revolution
Immanuel Velikovsky Archive
The Society for Interdisciplinary Studies (SIS)
Saturn Polar Configuration Debunked
Articles or parts of that debunk (evidence or arguments against) the Saturn Polar Configuration:
Dave Talbott and Polar configuration | wikipedia
ON TESTING THE SATURN MYTH POLAR CONFIGURATION | Saturn Myth Delusion
The Saturn Problem | SIS
Worlds Still Colliding (Velikovsky Still Colliding) | Leroy Ellenberger
An antidote to Velokovskian delusions | Leroy Ellenberger (search for ‘polar configuration’ down the article)
Everything Is Electric?
Will Ceres, the dwarf planet or massive asteroid, be as science predicts - an icy object with some internal rocky material and core with perhaps with an internal liquid ocean - a ...
Are concentric circle petroglyphs (cup and ring mark petroglyphs) an ancient rock art representation of Saturns rings? Either Saturn when the Earth was closer to it or if Sa...
Irving Langmuir - scientist of nearly everything it seems! Also investigated plasma and coined the term plasma. Irving Langmuir - biographies by Electric Universe theory website...