Author Topic: XEchange - Serpentinization - natural power source, Anode/Cathode?  (Read 17362 times)

electrobleme

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Serpentinization - chemical or/and electrical energy exchange?

Is Serpentinization a power source exchange with an Anode/Cathode? If there is a potential difference between the sea water at the surface and the sea shore, what sort of energy difference is there at the bottom of the ocean and the sea floor?

Is this the reason why Black and White Smokers and Volcanogenic massive sulfide ore deposit ("fossilised" Black Smokers) are usually found attached to hangingwalls of different type of rocks? All the different strata creating natural energy components? Similar to layers in capacitors, batteries or different materials in heating/transformer objects?

If they are influenced by electricity then you might see some evidence for Electrofocusing (isoelectric focusing)

Are other geological processes or mystery things observed variations of "serpentinization"? Exchanges of energy at certain points or layers.
Volcanoes and the magma, ash, steam, chemicals (also different types of volcano) and maybe a start of an explanation for the Ventura County hot spots mystery in Dick Smith Wilderness area, USA.
Are the Burning Cliffs of the UK and the "Ionia Volcano" of Lewis and Clark notoriety also a variation of the same XEchange process, a form of Serpentinization?

Is Serpentinization or other forms of electrochemical energy exchange found on other Planets?  Is there evidence for it on Mars and Titan?





Serpentinization - Artilces / links


Serpentinization - The Lost City Smokers
Mars - its methane gas hot spots and serpentinization?

Serpentinization - Earth/Mars/Titan? and other planets - Papers, news artilces


« Last Edit: August 31, 2009, 17:25:56 by electrobleme »

electrobleme

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Serpentinization - The Lost City Smokers
« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2009, 09:40:24 »
The Lost City - power exchange

Quote
Serpentinization: The Heat Engine at Lost City and Sponge of the Oceanic Crust

An important characteristic of serpentinization is that the hydration reactions in the mantle rocks are exothermic – that is, they consume water and produce a significant amount of heat during the transformation of olivine to serpentine and magnetite. The amount of heat produced is directly proportional to the amount of water that is taken up to form the mineral serpentine. In fact, serpentinization consumes an average of about 300 kilograms (approximately 300 liters or 79 US gallons) of water per cubic meter of rock that is altered. At the same time, this process produces about 660,000,000 joules of heat per cubic meter of rock. In simple terms, the amount of energy produced by serpentinization of one cubic meter of rock (about 35 cubic feet) is enough to run a 100 watt light bulb for about 76 days!

The geological significance of this heat effect is that serpentinization processes are capable of raising the rock temperature by about 260°C (550°F), if one ignores processes that lead to heat transport and cooling of the rock. It is this heat source that appears to be driving the Lost City hydrothermal system. This is in strong contrast to other known hydrothermal systems along the mid-ocean ridges, which are driven by magmatic heat and are characterized by high temperature, metal-rich fluids that ultimately create spectacular “Black Smoker” sulfide structures. Some of the questions that we will try to answer with our studies of the Lost City system are: How fast has serpentinization taken place at the Atlantis Massif? What are the hydrothermal temperatures today and how hot has this system been in the past? How long can serpentinization sustain hydrothermal activity in the future?
Lost City - serpentinization


Quote
The water venting at Lost City is generally 200°F. The fluids do not get as hot as the black smokers because it is not heated by magma; rather, the heat comes from serpentinization, a chemical reaction between seawater and mantle rock.

That’s also the reason for all the hydrocarbons. Naturally occurring carbon dioxide is locked in mantle rock. At Lost City, the reaction between the rock and seawater produces 10 to 100 times more hydrogen and methane (a hydrocarbon) than a typical black smoker system found along volcanic mid-ocean ridges, Proskurowski and Kelley found.
whoi - Lost City serpentinization

Quote
What is serpentinization? I'm a senior Chemical Engineering student at Clemson University and I can't seem to find a decent definition.?

Serpentinization is a processes whereby rock (usually ultramafic) is changed, by the addition of water into the crystal structure of the minerals found within the rock. The most common example is the serpentinization of peridotite (or dunite) into serpentinite (the metamorphic equivalent). Here's where it gets a bit fuzzy:

Metamorphic processes usually involve the addition of heat and pressure: a rock is buried, heats up and is squeezed, and the minerals change in an attempt to regain equilibrium with the new environment (like shale to slate, or limestone
to marble). In the case of peridotite to serpentine, the process actually involves a reduction in heat and pressure. Peridotite starts out as a sub-crustal, upper mantle rock. If tectonic forces move it nearer to the surface, the reduction in T&P cause it to freak out, and the minerals (usually pyroxene and olivine) change to the mineral serpentine. No, I'm not mixing up rocks and minerals. Serpentinite is a rock which is composed of the mineral serpentine (which results in far too much confusion for most of us normal mortals).
serpentinization - AskGeoMan
« Last Edit: May 10, 2010, 21:43:07 by electrobleme »

electrobleme

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Mars - its methane gas hot spots and serpentinization?
« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2009, 10:49:43 »
Mars - serpentinization? - gas releases and Olivine


Carbonte minerals, olivine and iron-magnesium smectite clay found at Nili Fossae, Mars


All our research into Mars appears to be for the search for life. Any results are compared with this goal. Does this influence what we see, what actual results we get? Or am I looking for any alternative including serpentinization?

Methane is spouting up from specific areas, at specific times on Mars. One of these areas has layers and rocks bearing olivine and iron-magnesium smectite clay, as well as carbonate rock. Olivine is formed in the process of serpentinization. Clays would promote the idea of water before or now in that area. The fact that iron is also present is another possible EU marker.

Is the methane production in this hot spots an exchange process, could a variation of serpentinization be the cause? The extra energy created by the Martian summer (the sun) powers up the exchange.


Quote
Something is happening beneath the surface of Mars that causes substantial amounts of methane gas to vent regularly into the atmosphere, a discovery that NASA scientists said yesterday represents the strongest indication so far that life may exist, or once existed, on the planet.

The methane is released into the atmosphere in specific areas and at regular times, they found, in a pattern that would be consistent with the gas being a byproduct of biological activity beneath the planet's parched surface.

Principal investigator Michael Mumma, of NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center, said the detection does not mean that life definitely exists on Mars, since the gas can also be produced by subsurface geological or chemical processes...

The scientists detected the plumes of methane during two Martian summers, when the planet's large formations of subsurface ice may melt and release the gas...

The new report confirms that discovery, describing intense, recurring but relatively brief gas releases that are consistent with either biological or active geological origins.

Mumma said the methane does not last long in the Martian atmosphere, which is made up largely of carbon dioxide that breaks down the gas much more quickly than on Earth...

The plumes were detected above a handful of Martian hot spots hundreds of miles apart, including Nili Fossae, Syrtis Major and Arabia Terra. Previous research has shown that liquid water once covered some of that area and detected mineral deposits that require standing water in order to form...

Methane can also be created by the interaction of water and subsurface minerals such as olivine in the presence of heat. This process, call serpentization, is known to occur beneath Earth's surface.

Methane is also known to be much more broadly present on Titan, one of Saturn's moons and another target for scientists looking for life beyond Earth.

.washingtonpost.com - Pattern of Gas's Release Suggests That It Is the Byproduct of Biological Activity, Scientists Say


Quote
The structural units of smectite can be derived from the structures of pyrophyllite and talc. Unlike pyrophyllite and talc, the 2:1 silicate layers of smectite have a slight negative charge owing to ionic substitutions in the octahedral and tetrahedral sheets. The net charge deficiency is normally smaller than that of vermiculite—from 0.2 to 0.6 per O10(OH)2—and is balanced by the interlayer cations as in vermiculite. This weak bond offers excellent cleavage between the layers. The distinguishing feature of the smectite structure is that water and other polar molecules (in the form of certain organic substances) can, by entering between the unit layers, cause the structure to expand in the direction normal to the basal plane. Thus this dimension may vary from about 9.6 Å, when there are no polar molecules between the unit layers, to nearly complete separation of the individual layers.
britannica.com  - clay mineral - Smectite


Smectite clays are meant to be slightly negative in charge. The layers can also virtually seperate when in the presence of water or other certain substances. Would this create charge seperation layers, similar to capacitors or batteries? It may be found out one day that water is created at junctions of rocks/layers/strata. Where their is a discharge or potential energy between different chemicals/layers. Where did the earths water come from if not from the earth itself... the floodgates of the fountains of the deep.  If water is created then this could explain why water levels have risen and fallen and why earth has so much. It has not come from comets.

Serpentinization on earth needs a lot of water but there will be other variations of "serpentinization", the same as other chemicals act as catalysts. If there is serpentinization on Mars happening now,  that does use water, then this could be created in situ and used up locally instead of coming gushing out to the surface. But then again it may use some other organic substance.


« Last Edit: August 17, 2009, 13:24:51 by electrobleme »

electrobleme

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Titan and serpentinization - methane clouds
« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2009, 13:46:26 »

Could the methan/ethane on Saturns moon of Titan be caused by serpentinization?  Although we are told it has to be an icy planet there could be a serpentinization variation on the moon.

Also, when you look at images of it the moon does not look like it is made out of ice rocks, it looks like rocks, soils, clays similar to Earth, Mars and Mercury. Of course we only have a few images to go on but the fact that the Huygens probe had to go through a very hard layer (rock or stones?) shows that the land could be a normalish rocky surface.

With all the electrical activity around it (magnetosphere) this could provide the energy needed to start the reactions.

electrobleme

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Burning Cliffs, mystery Hot/Fire Spots and the "Ionia Volcano"

Are the puzzling and mysterious Hot/Fire Spots found in the Los Padres National Forest (Dick Smith Wilderness), Ventura County, USA related to the Burning Cliffs seen in the UK and the "Ionia Volcano" of Lewis and Clark fame (1804) all related or variations of a form of serpentinization?

This link has references/news/website articles and even the natscience.com site has a forum chat about the Los Padres National Forest Hot Spots.


Quote
Most of the Los Padres forest is old ocean bottom, sandstone, silt stone, some serpentine.  the article wasn't specific enough to tell exactly where the event occurred.
Fire sparking hot spot - natscience .com

Quote
It is worthy of remark, that blocks of this stone which have been exposed to, and washed by, the salt water, burn better than what is recently taken from the cliff.
THE BURNING CLIFF, DORSET - Southampton University



« Last Edit: August 31, 2009, 17:18:03 by electrobleme »