Author Topic: The Cart Ruts of Malta - how were they formed?  (Read 48746 times)

electrobleme

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The Cart Ruts of Malta - how were they formed?
« on: May 18, 2009, 13:15:24 »

The different types of Cart Ruts (Cart Tracks) that you find increases the puzzle and ancient mystery of how were the Cart Ruts (Cart Tracks) of not just Malta but the world created?

The other Cart Ruts around the world have to also be considered.  These were photographed near Tlaxcala in Mexico and you also have some in Spain.


Were they created by heavy laden Carts?  Were they ancient roadways or transportation systems?  Were they for irrigation? Were they for something else? Are they man made or could nature have somehow created them?  Are they evidence of the idea that Malta was Atlantis (the land of temples)?

No one actually knows.  Those people who were around when they were created disappeared along with a lot of cultures around that time.


When you see a single pair of Cart Ruts they do look like some sort of track.  When you see the main area of Clapham Junction or the San Gwann "spaghetti junction" it leaves you puzzled as to why so many tracks were needed either beside each other or intersecting at one point.

If they were worn away then how many journeys, in the hardest rock on the island did it take? And why?

Were they Cart Tracks that were enlarged by man?




Was the actual top layer of Malta very different back then?  Was its composition changed in some catastrophe?  The island of Malta has certainly changed.  Cart Ruts go off cliff tops and appear to cross bays and can be found underwater on the sea floor.  Something appears to have happened on a massive event.  Would it be at the same time that those who built the "temples" went MIA?




Do the mysterious and strange geological shapes and features found on and around the Malta Cart Ruts/Tracks have anything to do with how and why they were created or stopped being built or used?



« Last Edit: May 25, 2010, 00:05:10 by electrobleme »

hulland

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Re: The Cart Ruts of Malta - how were they formed?
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2009, 18:03:14 »
I have read a lot about the ruts, as well as searched and carefully observed them in Malta.

A study was carried out a few years ago by a University team who discovered several interesting facts-

1) when the limestone is actually wet ( eg being rained on) it becomes much softer, and prone to be worked on / eroded. and

 2) If you check out the frozen tracks used in snow by the Inuit tribes, they have always found it much easier ( and therefore faster) to re-use the frozen tracks in the snow / ice, then to create fresh tracks each time.

Every set of cart ruts that I have found,  runs from or to a supply of ( building) stone. If the two poles had hard stones affixed to their tips, and the load was stones for building, then regular transport of the stones, along pre-cut grooves, pulled by some "beast of burden" ( as the feet marks show near Ta Baldu!), then once these tracks were established they could have been used for generations, and generations, and would have been the easiest way to solve a heavy moving problem.

The opposite extreme are the cart ruts, barely visible, in the valley called "kalkara" leading from Id - Deli to the sea. Here it would appear, that although the prime motivation was for the transport of stone, the demand, or supply was not used for many journeys at all.

Apologies for a brief comment, but it is so easy to type reams, and reams and reams on this subject !

electrobleme

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1) and 2)  I didn’t know about wet limestone being easier to work. With the different and constantly changing climates for Malta, the Med and the world, a wetter or more damp Malta in the past is a safe bet. This would help to explain why they are so smooth.

With the changes in environment could the cart ruts have been formed when the top layer was different today, then with another climate change the top surface hardened and that is why we find them still around today?  Is there any evidence of the tracks in other areas other than the hardest of rock? I know they are unlikely to have lasted but there could be something that might show them, like a "green road" or old track that leads on from them? Any folklore about them?

There is another idea that might be an option in an Electric Universe. There seems to be evidence that an event was witnessed in the skies by all the ancient peoples. This is seen in the squatting man and tree of life - images that were carved as petroglyphs into rocks all around the world.
A high energy plasma discharge such as this would give off a lot of x-rays and EM (waves/rays). We use variations of such a technique today for many different purposes, from the dentist hardening your fillings to plastics and circuit boards. If the squatter man did happen and the earth was subject to such rays could this then have hardened the top layer of Malta and that is why the rocks are so hard and why the cart ruts have remained, frozen in time?
This might also explain how come delicate footprints of dinosaurs, animals and even humans have somehow been captured in mud and remained long enough to become fossilised. It has always seemed strange to me how come mud lasted so long to even start the process. If it happened instantly or very quickly then this could be the answer.


The steps at Ta Baldu are fascinating (there will be a page soon about them with some interesting stuff that i am still trying to work out fully - see below) and I have also seen some faint steps also at Clapham Junction, going up to the cave.

I met a chap through the chat room on http://www.cartrutsmalta.com/ who was visiting Malta on holiday again but wanted to see the other cart rut sites. He said before we went that he hoped to see an area where they turned the carts or had the "switch" points. He said they needed to use it mainly for going downhill and it should be where tracks meet, a dug out lower circle or square. We did observe a couple of areas at Ta Baldu and Naxxar which looked like areas he had suggested! If it was the case and that they used these, then maybe they were only at the busiest junctions? The problem with this idea is why not use them everywhere?

I have not heard of the cart ruts at Kalkara, are they easy to find? Are they similar to the ones at St George’s bay going into the sea?

Hopefull this article is not to long!

kevin

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Re: The Cart Ruts of Malta - how were they formed?
« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2010, 20:11:38 »
Electrobleme,
I would recommend a look at the cart tracks near Whitby where the Alum was mined.
they created the cart tracks to enable the carts to access the ships which were capable of grounding on the rocky beach's for loading and unloadingh.
Kevin

Alexander Peren

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Re: The Cart Ruts of Malta - how were they formed?
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2011, 09:00:01 »
Dear all,

please have a look on wikipedia (German version):
Schleifspuren (Malta) - button: Diskussion:
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diskussion:Schleifspuren_%28Malta%29

there you will find a found I made in 2001 and which I gave to the archeological museum of La Valetta/Malta.

After 3 years of hearing nothing from them (they are very convinced that the cart-ruts were created by wheels and not by sledges) and several times of claiming by phone to receive a result of the examination, they simply told me: "we have never seen s.th. similar before, we have no idea what it might represent - but surely this found has nothing to do with the cart-ruts".

I am convinced that this what I found is a runner, as part of a sledge. I have more photos not exposed on wikipedia about this found. And furthermore, I made two sketches how I could imagine that this might have run. For me, there were at least two runner (on top of the sledge), more probably four runners (on top and at the rear). at least - for me - the two runners on top were as pair fix dirigible (e.g. our modern cars) or perhaps variable dirigible (every side separately). I am not sure if the runners even might be dirigable in all three dimensions (to get more flexibility to manage the turns/bends).
Please see also http://www.wer-weiss-was.de/theme60/article6474016.html where I ask for specialists of machine construction how the chain guide for probably a cord in the inner part of the runner might have been run. Until now, no helpful reply. The last days I contacted several universities of Germany for this found (Institutes of Archeolgoy as well as Institues for Machine construction). Let's see, if there would be another result than "nothing".
If you are interested in, I can forward you the sketches I made (the description is unfortunately in German).

It would be great if someone of you would be interested in my found for further investigations. I also can provide you with the name, phone number, e-mail of the archeologist at the National museum I had contact with (two different persons). I am sure that this found is currently not in the public halls of exposition of the museum (accessable for every one) but somewhere in the depots, caves, stocks and waits for further investigations. 

Thank you in advance for your cooperation to find a specialist who is interested in doing further investigations.

P.S.: this found was made west of Rabbat on the way in direction to Fomm-Ir-Rih, some kms outside Rabbat, at the boder of an prehistoric quarry (right hand side of the country lane)= at the border of country lane without coal tar (at that time) in a smart left turn, near a tower wich was some 100 meters away from the country lane on the left hand side and where we were told that it was in former times a prison of Malta and/or a school (information of another person, which I doubt; prison - might be, but school ? I do not believe, too much fortified) . In all cases, there were far around no other buildings than this tower - in 2001 (the times might have changed, we do not know) (we wonder if it might be Torii-Tan-Nadur and the country lane north of it, the prehistoric quarry then should be north-north east of the tower: 35532418North 14215840East, but we are not sure, it is too long time ago). In 2001 I described the place where I found the artefact to the archeologist very precicely - up to 5 meters precice, so the found location is evident.

I am looking forward hearing from you

best regards

Alexander

electrobleme

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hello,

thanks for posting and sharing this

i have put the links in google translate, there is a bit of 'lost in translation' but with your post it is easy to work most of it out.

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diskussion:Schleifspuren_%28Malta%29
http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fde.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FDiskussion%3ASchleifspuren_%2528Malta%2529&act=url

http://www.wer-weiss-was.de/theme60/article6474016.html
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wer-weiss-was.de%2Ftheme60%2Farticle6474016.html


I would be interested in following this up for you and for everyone. If you want to PM me the contact details I can see what they say. I can say with a lot of certainty that your piece is not on display in the archeological museum as I have been there a number of times in the last year.

looking at the wiki page those cart ruts in Mallorca or also of interest :) there are other cart ruts abroad http://www.cartrutsmalta.com/cart-ruts-tracks-tlaxcala-mexico.html and Solana de la Pedrera - Spain http://www.electricyouniverse.com/eye/index.php?level=album&id=105



quarry where runner was found?
 35°53'2.418"N  14°21'58.40"E

Nadur Tower
 35°54'2.17"N  14°22'16.14"E

Mtahleb (Ta' Baldu) cart ruts on side of cliff
 35°52'36.99"N  14°21'40.95"E

ancient solar observatory complex (Wied ir-Rum)
 35°52'25.13"N  14°20'47.01"E

these are some locations that you mention and others that are close by that may be important. The Ta Baldu cart ruts i have not put up on my site yet but i should do as they are very interesting.

Alexander Peren

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Re: The Cart Ruts of Malta - how were they formed?
« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2011, 10:11:12 »
Dear electrobleme,

2001 is 10 years ago. I did not make notices for myself, on which country lane it was precicely, but when I gave the artefact to the museum, I told it very precicely to them.

Question: Was Nadur tower in the past a maltese prison? If so, it is evident, that  I found it on the border of this ancient quarry: What I furthermore remember is, that on the base (= lowest part)  of the quarry (more or less rectangular), a farmer cultivated flowers and that the rectangle was paralell to the country lane. At one end of the quarry (the end most westward), there was evidently to see that the prehistoric people there already began to cut/to saw another stone out of the quarry, but they did not finish. Of this not finished megalith, I also have a photo. This rudimental megalith was only 10 meters besides the place where I found the artefact. I could imagine that the farmer of today - in pluging his field for flowers - was disturbed by this stone and he threw it to the border of his field = border of the ancient quarry = border of the country lane (where I found it finally).

quarry where runner was found? - Probably. the last certainty can be given by the contact person of the museum in La Valetta.

 35°53'2.418"N  14°21'58.40"E

Nadur Tower
 35°54'2.17"N  14°22'16.14"E

One more aspect concerning the transport mechanisme: You surely know that the soil of Malta is of a special consistency: If dry, it is normal soil. But if moisty or even wet, this soil is slippy as wet soap. And remember: if the limestone is moisty / wet as well, this kind of stone has similar attributes as a sponge: Once you press against it, water comes out. Evidently, limestone has a lot smaller effect than a sponge, but the principle is the same: moisty/wet limestone forced with pressure on it, gives a part of this humidity to the environment. and if this environment is the Maltese soil, this soil becomes moisty as well and per consequence slippy as a wet soap. The more pressure you use the more slippy the underground will be. Megalithes = enormous weight = enormous pressure on the ground -> very slippy, nearly no friction -> easily to transport megalithes! With two or four runners, you produce a repartition of the weight of the megalithes to only 2 respectively 4 points (the runners) = enormous pressure on the ground -> the limestone adsorbes the humidity and produces the lubricity exactley there, where it is needed: at that points, where is contact between sledge and ground and not in between the two channels. For me, the only remaining question is: Were the cart-ruts man-made by intention or are they only a product of consecutive use (wear). Perhaps the older ones are only product of wear, the latter one man-made (cut intentionally)?

I will PM you the contact datas of the persons in the National Museum of Archeology separately.

I am looking forward hearing from you again.

Best regards

Alexander

Alexander Peren

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Re: The Cart Ruts of Malta - how were they formed?
« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2011, 10:40:59 »
Dear electrobleme,

did you get my PM? - I had technical problems, so I am not sure, if it has passed through correctly to you.

Thank you in advance and have a nice day.

Best regards

Alexander

Alexander Peren

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Re: The Cart Ruts of Malta - how were they formed?
« Reply #8 on: June 15, 2011, 12:44:12 »
Dear electrobleme,

once more me.

Now I am a little bit confused: If I enter in Google Earth these datas

quarry where runner was found?
 35°53'2.418"N  14°21'58.40"E

Nadur Tower
 35°54'2.17"N  14°22'16.14"E

I get other sites than what the bottom of the screen tells me about the coordinates:

e.g. for quarry where runner was found:
your coordinates: 35532418N 14215840E - if I type this in Google Earth as coordinates, the dot will be situated, but at the bottom of the screen it is indicated: 35530241N 14215840E. Evidently, this is NOT the site, where I think that I found the artefacte. Instead, it is about 1 km more in the north.

Same with Torri-Tan-Nadur. The 3554517N 14221614E is NOT where I think. "My" Torri tan Nadur can also be seen on Google Earth, but more in the south, even with photo (taken by abelalouis). But both buildings are quite similar. At the bottom of the screen, it is indicated: 35532028N 14215608E

I do not see clear. Which coordinates are correct and which not. I thought, the indication at the bottom is correct, as it changes with every milimeter you walk with your mouse.

Please, orientate yourself only in GoogleEarth at the bottom of the screen! The indication there sould be the same as on my screen:

Torri-Tan-Nadur: 35532028N 14215608E
prehistoric quarry where I found the artefacte: 35532418N 14215840E

By the way: you mentioned
Mtahleb (Ta' Baldu) cart ruts on side of cliff
 35°52'36.99"N  14°21'40.95"E

if you copy these coordinates in Google Earth, it shows you the correct site (because this cart-rut can be seen by GoogleEarth as well! - But frankly spoken: I do not understand at all. One time: correct indication in the map, next time wrong indication ---- I am confused.

It seems to be two different "Nadur Tower". One names "Torri-Tan-Nadur", the other "Lascaris Watchtower (Nadur Tower)". Both look very similar to me.

I hope I could clarify a little bit the locations....

Thank you again for your help

Best regards

Alexander


kevin

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Re: The Cart Ruts of Malta - how were they formed?
« Reply #9 on: June 15, 2011, 18:13:12 »
Electrobleme,
 I recommended Your site to Alexander.
He was asking on the stones forum, and obviously I thought of You.
Hope You are well?
Kevin

Alexander Peren

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Re: The Cart Ruts of Malta - how were they formed?
« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2011, 15:07:47 »
Dear electrobleme,

now I know, where the probleme occures with the coordinates in Google Earth: the dot is put at the wrong place you wrote:

 35°53'2.418"N  14°21'58.40"E

but it has to be
 35°53'24.18"N  14°21'58.40"E

then, you will get the correct site.

Once more the question: Was in the Torri-Tan-Nadur in former times a prison of Malta? If not (and not a school neither), then very probably I mean another building/location than described until now. The evident fact is a BUILDING - in going westwards on the left hand side - standing very alone in 2001, more or less fortified, not directly on the country lane but not far away from it neither (some 100 mtrs., perhaps even closer). Furthermore I remember a wooden power pole with a power line which ends at that building. The power line came from the direction of Rabbat. At the point of the building, the country lane turned smartly right and some 50 to 100 mtrs further  onwards to the west the same country line turned smartly to the left (so in total the country lane describes the form of an "S", start of walk at the bottom of the "S"). Furthermore I remember that the country lane goes slightly down the hill before arriving at the building, some 10 to 20 mtrs difference in altitude in between the highest point of the road before reaching the building and the building. Then, the land level between the building and the prehistoric quarry remains more or less the same. Together with my photos, I sent you by e-mail the site should be to indentify, even if the persons in the museum did not find my discription any longer.

Thank you so much for your help

Best regards

Alexander

electrobleme

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Cart Ruts of Malta - sled runner
« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2011, 18:18:46 »
Hello, sorry for delay in replying but I have got so much on that I dont have much time for the forum at the moment!



I have put in the co-ordinates  35°53'24.18"N  14°21'58.40"E can you check on the image above that is the location?

Torri Nadur is very small in area as it is just a tower so i doubt it was used as a prison. There are some military buildings built around and under it but these were not a prison as far as i know. Just to make it confusing, there is also a tower called Nadur on Gozo!

There is a building in the area that looks like a small prison (drug rehab centre i am told) 35°52'55.37"N  14°21'23.11"E this is more of a country lane than the coordinates you have given me but its all relative on what you call country in an island of malta's size!

On the road between Rabat and Bahrija there is a very large concrete building that is a covered water reservoir, it is fairly close 35°53'17.39"N  14°22'37.37"E

At the end of the day if the coordinates are correct combined with your photos you sent me then i should be ok to find the area :)


My contact is finding out how best to speak to the museum to find the people and information. It may take a little while but we will get you some sort of update on what has happened since you contacted them.


electrobleme

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Re: The Cart Ruts of Malta - how were they formed?
« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2011, 18:25:19 »
Electrobleme,
 I recommended Your site to Alexander.
He was asking on the stones forum, and obviously I thought of You.
Hope You are well?
Kevin

cheers kevin, thanks for thinking of me and mentioning my site to him.

I am very well thank you, very very busy with non EU things which means i am really out of the EU loop as you may have noticed. But it looks like it is cart ruts time for me as i need to update my http://cartrutsmalta.com/ site

I hope all is well for you and you have a good summer




Alexander Peren

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Re: The Cart Ruts of Malta - how were they formed?
« Reply #13 on: June 18, 2011, 20:34:05 »
dear Electrobleme,

I am afraid, it is too long ago to be able to determin whether or whether not. 

Evidently, the photo you put in now, is the location where I believe having found the stone. But as I already told you: the most evident proof to find the correct country lane and the correct site, where I found the artefacte are the photos I took in 2001 during the walk shortly before and shortly after I made the found. The best memory might mix up different things if there is such a long time in between. So I mentioned in scanning the photos, that on one of them there can be seen a small part of the country lane and THERE IS indeed coal tar! In my memory, there is no coal tar. Either the coal tar stops at a certain moment there around - or it was at that time so damaged that I did not accept to use the word "coal tarred" for this road/country lane in general.

If the little prison you mention 35°52'55.37"N  14°21'23.11"E is the building I remember, then it should be more or less 35525890N 14211943E where I found the piece, because I remember a smooth left turn of the road, where the prehistoric quarry with the flower field (on the right hand side) was situated. Is there any evidence of a prehistoric quarry at this site? As my photos showing also a little bit of the surrundings, goes is together with the reality?

If you have an intensive look at the photos I sent to you, there HAS TO BE indeed some lonesome building(s) nearby (as they can be seen on the photo), this/these building(s) I did not remember any more! In my memory, there were no other buildings far around than that former prison. Goes this building /these buildings on my photo go together with the reality near to the prison at 35°52'55.37"N  14°21'23.11"E? Furthermore, on google Earth, I see Mhatleb church nearby. Is this church and this village to be seen from the country lane passing at the prison? - I do not remember having seen a church nearby. Question: Is shortly before arriving at this prison (coming from direction of Rabbat) a smart downhill of the road? - This I remember. The best is to compare my photos with the reality. This is the most evident point of view.

Thank you so much for all your help to find the correct location.

Have a great week-end and take your time to find the solution. The artefacte lied around somewhere in Malta for about 5000 years without having been mentioned by anyone, so another year more is NOTHING to find the correct solution, don't you think so as well?

Best regards

Alexander