Author Topic: The Red Sun God? Why did Egyptians have a red sun God?  (Read 372603 times)

electrobleme

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Horned Moon and Horned Moses
« Reply #90 on: February 16, 2010, 02:54:43 »


Moses shown with horns (frequent in old images of Moses)

In God's Fire - Moses and the management of Exodus(full pdf of the book) by Alfred de Grazia he has an image of Moses with horns. I read the book a few years ago and can not remember what he says about it! When i get time i will try to find that part.
It might be nothing to do with what we have been discussing but i just thought i would mention it.


Also in the post LANDMARKS OF WORLD HISTORY: A Chronology of Remarkable Natural Phenomena there is mention of the moon and horns

1668 November - Boston, Mass - Lunar event? 'Star' in body of Moon between horns

electrobleme

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Bohemia event in 1570 and Hathor from Papyrus of Ani
« Reply #91 on: February 16, 2010, 03:38:36 »

Depiction of an aurora formed of numerous pencil like rays above a cloud of ‘stars’, as seen on
12. January 1570 in Bohemia. Germanisches National museum, Nürnberg.


What on Earth …? TPOD describes ancient beliefs and tales of the Earth/Heavens and where the Gods lived. I found it interesting to read after what has been discussed here. Finding myself with new knowledge and understanding.

I have to say that looking at the image above I did not think of an aurora but of an image from the book "Comet Venus".

A quote below from a website guide to auroras

Quote
A spectacular aurora seen over middle Europe in 1570 brought forth the following admonition:
"Wherefore, dear Christians, take such terrible portents to heart and digilently pray to God, that He will soften His punishments and bring us back into His favor, so that we may await with calm the future of our souls and salvation. Amen."

The drawing below [above in this post/quote] was made of the same aurora, from what is now the west of the Czech Republic.

"A shocking prodigy which was seen from Kuttenberg in the kingdom of Bohemia and independently in other towns and places round about on the 12th of January, for four hours in the night. As it stood within the clouds of the sky in this year 1570."
Crawford Library, Royal Observatory, Edinburgh
Historical Aurora | spaceacademy.net.au

I wonder what sort of aurora could create that sort of response and fear?





Goddess Hathor stalks through papyrus plants, from Papyrus of Ani. Or Sprites (upwards lightning) / plasma discharges?


Quote
The image on page 83 is very revealing - it clearly shows Hathor 'housing' the red disk. The wavy lines arching up to form a mountain undoubtedly represent Earth's rings. Emerging from this cosmic mountain and papyrus plants is the 'lady of the western mountain', Hathor. She is shown as a cow wearing a plumed red disk between her horns to symbolise her role as 'housing the king'.

The papyrus plants represent another aspect of cosmic phenomenon only recently discovered - that of sprites. Taking on the appearance of a blue lotus, sprites ae a form of cosmic megalightning which appears to shoot some eighty kilometres out into space"
Comet Venus | On page 83

After looking at the top image from Bohemia I then did a search for this image to see what others said about. The gallery of Natural Phenomena site describes the events Bohemia in 1570 as

"1570 January 12 Bohemia - Aurora - Torches & pillars"

I know that the aurora can take on many shapes/patterns but i am wondering what others think about the image of the candles? Is this how they would have drawn the aurora to explain it to those who did not see it or for later generations? Could Bohemia show sprites or something else? What are the stars doing in the clouds? How high or where exactly are the candles meant to be? Does the dark cloud show colour or darkness?
« Last Edit: February 16, 2010, 03:59:11 by electrobleme »

Mo

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Re: The Red Sun God? Why did Egyptians have a red sun God?
« Reply #92 on: February 16, 2010, 09:51:30 »
A large aurora in 1570 suggested lots of sunspots so I looked it up. There was a period of decreased sunspot activity called the Spörer Minimum (1420 to 1570).

If one looks at a graph of sunspots since 1600:
http://tiny.cc/usEcV
One can't help but wonder if the galactic current entering the Solar System varies and the Maunder Minimum is the result. Although I see that the planets have a significant effect on the sunspots, 11 year cycles of stellar activity have been found in many stars. Other long term variations in galactic current and thus Solar activity seem likely.

The great storm surge called the All Saints Flood occurred in 1570.
http://tiny.cc/YTzVT
"In Zeeland not a single island was spared by the All Saints flood..."


This is quite curious, especially because the Maunder Minimum starts in the 17th century and it appears that some event in 1570 may have kicked the Sun out of a very long minimum period (from 1420 to 1720), for seventy years or so. It is more likely to have just been galactic current variation, but it is worth noting.
Mo
« Last Edit: February 16, 2010, 09:55:12 by Mo »

electrobleme

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Comet Venus - Ptah (Jupiter) God of Craftsmen, Rebirth and Creation
« Reply #93 on: February 17, 2010, 02:51:31 »

Comet Venus - Ptah (Jupiter) God of Craftsmen, Rebirth and Creation


Ptah mummified and with the scepter/staff of combined Ankh, Djed and Was symbols

** Saturn and Jupiter not physcially involved with Earth, never Pharaohs (God Kings) but both Ptah (Jupiter) and Sokar (Saturn) residing in or near the ecliptic. Ptah mentioned as "Ptah South of his Wall, lord of the white wall" and "life of the two lands".

** Ptah creator of the metal plate that was the roof/floor of heaven and the struts supporting it (the 4 posts of the Djed Pillar)

** Jupiter (Ptah) temperature and hence its colour kept varying from white to blue. Colour and look = skull caps. Ptah shown as mommified like Osiris.

** Ptah = god of creation/rebirth and responsible for "Opening of the Mouth" ceremony where the dead body was "restarted" so the Ka could get to Upper Egypt, with Ptah the last stepping stone/planet to Upper Egypt

Gary Gilligan has a great image on page 108 of his book that shows the metal plate of heaven, would you be able to let me know where you got if from so i can show it? Thanks :)


electrobleme

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"Was Sceptre/Staff of Power" - Egyptian symbol of power
« Reply #94 on: February 17, 2010, 04:43:24 »

Was Sceptre or Was Staff - Egyptian symbol and staff of power

Quote
The was sceptre was a long straight staff with two prongs at the bottom and a canine head at the top. It symbolised power or dominion and was associated with the gods as well as with the pharaoh. The earliest examples date to the First Dynasty. An ivory comb from the reign of Djet depicts two was sceptres supporting the outstretched wings of a falcon (representing the heavens). In a funerary context the was-sceptre was also an amulet which ensured the well-being of the deceased and so often appeared as a decoration on funerary equipment. The sceptre also formed the hieroglyph for the fourth nome of Upper Egypt, whose capital was Thebes (known as Waset by the ancient Egyptians).
Was sceptre | ancientegyptonline.co.uk

Quote
Was ("power") scepters represent the typhonic or Set-animal (the mascot of the Egyptian god Set). Was scepters were depicted as being carried by gods, pharaohs, and priests, as a symbol of power, and in later use, as a symbol of control over the force of chaos that Set represented. Was scepters often occur in paintings, drawings, and carvings of gods, and remnants of real Was scepters have been found constructed of faience or wood, where the head and forked tail of the Set-animal are visible.

The Was is also the Egyptian hieroglyphic character that stands for a word meaning power.
Was sceptre | wikipedia.org


Was Egyptian hieroglyph symbol and scepter/staff

Was the Was Sceptre/Staff of Power a plasma discharge event?




« Last Edit: February 17, 2010, 04:49:51 by electrobleme »

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Re: The Red Sun God? Why did Egyptians have a red sun God?
« Reply #95 on: February 17, 2010, 18:16:02 »
Quote
Gary Gilligan has a great image on page 108 of his book that shows the metal plate of heaven, would you be able to let me know where you got if from so i can show it? Thanks

Matt,

Here is the image you requested


Tuthmosis/Moon offering before the mummiform figure of Ptah/Jupiter. This suggests to me the Moon is in conjunction with Jupiter, probably appearing to pass on volatiles collected from Mars.

Numerous Stele show the vault of heaven or metal plate, but even if they don’t, the curve at the top is to be read as the dome of heaven. I believe the design of grave stones owe their origin to ancient stele (as do some Egyptologists).

More ‘metal plates’ of heaven.


Tuthmosis VI (Moon) offering to the god Horemakhet ("Horus in the horizon") in the form of a sphinx. 


Thutmose III (Moon) before the God Re-Harakhte this time in the form of a falcon with the ubiquitous red disk. 


Nectanebo I (Mercury?) offering to the goddess Neith.




Stela of Ramesses/Mars ("fashioned by Re") offering to the aurora/Amun.     

The accompanying text by the author speaks for itself http://www.flickr.com/photos/70323761@N00/2435365674/

“This stela commemorates King Ramesses II's presentation of statues to a temple of Amun-Re in Nubia. The arrangement of scenes and text symbolizes the ancient Egyptians' conception of their highly structured state. Heaven appears at the top, with the sacred world of the gods beneath it, followed by text linking the divine and human realms, and, at the bottom, the terrestrial home of the Egyptian populace.

The stela's curved upper margin represents the vault of heaven separating the ordered universe from chaos. Ma'at (universal order) governs everything below the arc, whether depicted in the pictures or mentioned in the texts. The upper register shows an event in the gods' domain: the presentation of symbols of kingship to Ramesses II by Amun-Re, the principal god of Egypt during the New Kingdom. The five lines of text beneath this scene stand between the worlds of gods and humans. Part of the text specifies the five names Ramesses II used as ruler, emphasizing his more-than-human qualities. The remainder recounts the king's many offerings to Egypt's temples. The lowest register shows four birds representing the Egyptian populace paying homage to the king.”

It should be noted when resurrecting Egypt’s numerous gods, for me 95% of all epithets, titles and images have to fit the physical identification. This is a must otherwise I rarely go to print. In my first book I was none too sure if Jupiter/Ptah and Saturn/Sokar were seen due to the dust and debris littering the ecliptic. Further research revealed they were seen and played a very important role in the afterlife of the Egyptians. This reveals they were pretty much where they are now, large ‘mummified’ stars in the night sky (Electrical phenomena and other stuff notwithstanding!)   

I'm baffled by scholars who know and accept that the Egyptians believed that after death they were reborn as a star in the kingdom of Osiris. With this crucial belief the Egyptians are revealing their next world, the dome shaped vault of heaven, this believed to be fixed land mass above. By adopting a childlike outlook we can actually see the duel world the Egyptians were so obsessed with - it explains so much. The transposed Egyptians are still with us, watching over us in the night sky... comforting :)

A phrase I often live by... sometimes the simplest answer is the right one.


Gary Gilligan

electrobleme

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Re: The Red Sun God? Why did Egyptians have a red sun God?
« Reply #96 on: February 17, 2010, 19:09:53 »

cheers for posting those image and the explanations. for me it helps to visualise what you are saying and appears to provide evidence of the logic path of your investigations/ideas

electrobleme

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Comet Venus - Sokar (Saturn) God of rebirth and rejuvenation
« Reply #97 on: February 17, 2010, 19:10:59 »
Comet Venus - Sokar (Saturn) God of rebirth and rejuvenation

** Sokar (Saturn) = god of rebirth/rejuvenation

**  Often shown as mummified man with falcons head, leading to Sokar-Osiris.  Also shown as rising from mound of earth/boat = moving out of the dust band/ecliptic

** Sokar was known as "brilliant one, both at thy rising and thy setting", "lord of the mysterious region", "great god with his two wings opened"
I have proposed in the book - interactions between Ptah/Jupiter and Sokar/Saturn making the recently discovered larger magneto ring far greater and more visible from earth (chaos permitting, hence Saturn/Sokar one of the more enigmatic gods).

** Saturns Rings (Sokar) = "wings" either side of the planet.

** Why was Sokars bargue shown so complex?

** Planetary conjunctions or alignments of Sokar/Ptah (Saturn/Jupiter) explains the combined gods Ptah-Sokar-Osiris


from Comet Venus book by Gary Gilligan

« Last Edit: February 19, 2010, 22:55:54 by electrobleme »

electrobleme

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Re: Comet Venus - Sokar (Saturn) God of rebirth and rejuvenation
« Reply #98 on: February 17, 2010, 21:45:05 »

Egyptian Sokar funeral barque/barge also showing the 4 pillars

Quote
In ancient Egypt, Sokar is really one of the more complex Egyptian gods to understand. He is often equated with Osiris, or as the resurrected Osiris though his scope stretches well beyond that over time. Even his name is shrouded in scholarly controversy. One theory is that his name is derived from and based on the term sk r ("cleaning of the mouth") found in Coffin Text Spell 816 and a 12th dynasty papyrus. This term is used in the context of the Opening of the Mouth ceremony in which Sokar does play a part. Another theory is that the etymology of the god's name comes from one of the Pyramid Texts where Osiris said, as a cry of help to his wife and sister, "Sy k ri", or hurry to me.  

...Even though there has not been any archaeological evidence of a temple solely dedicated to Sokar, Memphis  remained the primary cult center of god and it was there, at least by the early Old Kingdom, that the great Sokar (or Choiak) took place each year during the fourth month of the spring akhet season.
Sokar, an Egyptian God of the Underworld | touregypt.net

« Last Edit: February 17, 2010, 21:50:27 by electrobleme »

Mo

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Re: The Red Sun God? Why did Egyptians have a red sun God?
« Reply #99 on: February 18, 2010, 11:06:49 »
Seems to me that the image on the right in the above
"Egyptian Sokar funeral barque/barge also showing the 4 pillars"
contains a planet ( circle ) above a dome which has the 4 pillars underneath. The arc of the boat looks like a circle from the planet, and the 'boards' seem directed away from the planet. So the arc of the boat could be the double layer around the magnetosphere, and the dome and 4 pillars could be a Birkeland current flowing to the planet. The fourfold division is a stable plasma configuration.

I have trouble with the wings of Sokar being due to the rings around Saturn, unless the recently discovered larger ring was much more visible. You need a telescope to see the rings. The double layer around Saturn could be the source of the wings of Saturn. What we need are the numbers associated with each god. 12 years could be Jupiter, and Jupiter - Saturn conjunctions would be around 20 years or so. Thus Ptah-Sokar-Osiris should have some 20 year cycle.
Mo

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Re: The Red Sun God? Why did Egyptians have a red sun God?
« Reply #100 on: February 18, 2010, 14:52:13 »
Quote
I have trouble with the wings of Sokar being due to the rings around Saturn, unless the recently discovered larger ring was much more visible.

I have proposed in the book - interactions between Ptah/Jupiter and Sokar/Saturn making the recently discovered larger magneto ring far greater and more visible from earth (chaos permitting, hence Saturn/Sokar one of the more enigmatic gods).   

Quote
What we need are the numbers associated with each god. 12 years could be Jupiter, and Jupiter - Saturn conjunctions would be around 20 years or so. Thus Ptah-Sokar-Osiris should have some 20 year cycle.

Something I’m looking into, the problem is ancient chorology is out by over a thousand years in some places (as proposed by Gunnar Heinsohn et al)   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunnar_Heinsohn

Actually, one could help the other inasmuch if we were to look back through astronomy software and take note of the possible conjunctions between Jupiter and Saturn during Pharaonic times and then compare this to the appearance of the composite god Ptah-Sokar, this may just give us a few synchronical points.  But we have to bear in mind, if interactions between the two did occur then this could obviously affect the outcome i.e. their annual orbits different to that of today, although I wouldn’t think by that much. Further research is required here.   

Gg   



Mo

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Re: The Red Sun God? Why did Egyptians have a red sun God?
« Reply #101 on: February 19, 2010, 07:35:14 »
If one or more of the other planets had 4 pillars associated with it, then possibly there were 4 Birkeland currents passing by the Earth. These pillars might have been brightest just as they went around Earth, so that with the Sun at noon, the 4 pillars, or the 4 Birkeland currents, would have been particularly visible near the horizon in 4 directions 90 degrees apart. Also conjunctions could have increased the electric current passing the Earth, making these pillars particularly visible.

Mo
« Last Edit: February 19, 2010, 07:40:15 by Mo »

electrobleme

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the 4 colourful directions of the earth
« Reply #102 on: February 19, 2010, 23:21:26 »
i am gonna get splinters from this one, sitting on the fence. its like that black/white image of the old lady or pretty women. one moment i see one thing the next the other.

i can see both sides of the discussion, 4 birkeland currents or pillars holding up the heavens. still wonder why only 4 and not more if it was circular flat land? garys reply was really good about that but i guess i am guilty of being a bit biased and want/hope to see EU stuff in everything and the reason for everything. i guess its more fun to question the standard theories than accept they have to be right sometimes.

Although i think i read once that didnt they have 4 colours instead of north, south etc and that is why we have the red sea, black sea, white sea etc?

Perhaps the 4 pillars came from 4 birkeland currents many years before so that the 4 pillars were then the image, the original meaning either having been forgotten or lost?




electrobleme

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Comet Venus - The Battles of the Pharaohs
« Reply #103 on: February 25, 2010, 21:37:21 »
The Battles of the Pharaohs


Pharaohs and ancient gods (Baal and Hittite god) arm raised ready to smite


** Egyptian pharaohs = astral Pharaohs whose role was to maintain order amongst the chaos happening in the skies and the solar system. Why did or would the egyptians fear such chaos when the land of egypt appears to be very stable?

** The forces of chaos were objects (foreign bodies) in the solar system (asteroids, wandering moons) that attacked the egyptians route (the ecliptic) to the Upper Land and eternal afterlife. On earth foreigners were cosidered enemies.

** Mars and Venus "cleaned" up the foriegn bodies, bringing order and a path to the Upper Land

** The God Kings (Pharaohs) shown defeating foreign enemies with same pose (arm raised up with mace/club) as other countries Gods (Baal /Adad). Battle of Kadesh quote

Quote
I charged all countries, while i was alone, my infantry and my chariotry having forsaken me. Not one among them stood to turn about. I swear, as Re loves me, as my father, Atum, favours me. that, as for every matter which his majesty has stated, I did it in truth, in the presence of my infantry and my chariotry"
Comet Venus | The Battles of the Pharaohs

** Pharaoh/Egyptian battles or warfare shown in hieroglyphics and temple images = astral warfare. Egyptians did have Earthly wars but not the ones shown by sacred writing/images on sacred buildings

for a lot more information on this topic visit the authors website and the article on The nonexistent battles of the Pharaohs

« Last Edit: February 25, 2010, 22:20:05 by electrobleme »

electrobleme

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Re: The Battles of the Pharaohs
« Reply #104 on: February 25, 2010, 23:43:15 »

there are some links when i had a quick look at this before "A CHALLENGE! "The Nonexistent Battles of the Pharoahs"

there are images and accounts of the pharaohs charging by themselves into the enemy, even some egyptoligists wonder about this as a battle tactic!