The Red Sun God? Why did Egyptians have a red sun God?

[Mo]

The Djed is considered by some as the backbone of Osiris.   Gary

If Osiris was the region around Venus, the magnetosphere, and the Djed was a Birkeland current through this magnetosphere, then this column could certainly be described as the backbone of Osiris appearing through the middle of this region in the sky.

Taking all of the above into account, I’m not dismissing Mo’s ideas because it quite possible said ‘roof pillars’ were physically observed and caused by close proximity bodies generating Birkeland currents which looked like struts holding up the sky, in fact I like this idea. I’m all for taking images at face value. Further research is required here.  Gary

In my theory the oceans were carved out by Birkeland currents, which could have appeared as column-like, not that I expect any humans were around at such times. However, during conjunctions such Birkeland currents could have reformed, and as plasma formations find stability in the fourfold manifestation, it might have appeared that there were four columns in the sky at such times of conjunction. Also at such times there would be great worries that the sky was falling, and the columns were holding it up.

That explanation of how mumification came about seems spot on to me. And it was Mercury instead of Venus  -  well that's fine. And Osiris being the whiteness that envelops planets - sure.

Now if you are covering the period until 5,000 years ago, then that would be after the break-up of the Saturn System, if it existed, and after the ice ages, which in my theory also came after this break-up. If some Egyptian stuff is attributed to the Saturn System, then this is either wrong or else artifacts exist from a previous civilisation, mixed in with the later things. So this all fits in beautifully with my theory in that I see little conflict. When I get time I'll redo my theory and post it on this forum.
Mo

[The Aten]

More on the Djed.

Excerpts from http://www.pyramidofman.com/Djed/

“Most of the Djeds found in later tombs have been flat objects, usually no thicker than a quarter of its width, these flat representations of the Djed probably being derived from the hieroglyphic renditions.  But in these two ivory Djeds from the First Dynasty pictured below, we see that the Djed was originally more of a round pillar than a flat object.  Being such old pieces, they give us valuable insight into the original design and therefore the original function of the Djed before it became a flat icon.”

“The ancient Egyptians divided the sky into two parts in very early times, with the Eastern end resting on the 'Mountain of Sunrise' and the Western end on the 'Mountain of Sunset'.  Later a division into four parts was made and the four corners of heaven were protected by four gods.”

"O Re-Atum, this King comes to you, an Imperishable Spirit, Lord of the affairs of the place of the Four Pillars"

“The mention of the place of the 'Four Pillars' is a reference to Heaven, which the Ancient Egyptians believed to rest on these four pillars.  The columns supporting the roofs of temples were often shaped like papyrus stems, hence the hieroglyphic writing of the word "pillar".

“Another way of depicting 'Four Pillars' would be to put one behind the other with each sticking up a bit above the one in front so that it can be seen.”





“In some mythological accounts, the sky was divided into four parts and supported by the staffs of four gods. According to Brown, the staffs may also represent pillars, which, in a method to describe four pillars, one behind the other in typical ancient Egyptian artistic style, might create an image that looks remarkably like the Djed symbol. Indeed, Ptah is often depicted holding the djed symbol as a staff, and lending further support to this theory are the bands found below the crossbars of some djet pillars that correspond to the papyrus and other columns in ancient temples, which symbolically held together the papyrus stalks. “

http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/djedpillar.htm

Gary Gilligan

[electrobleme]

other cultures might have had similar ideas as the Egyptians about heaven/earth and the pillars - it would be good to see what they said about them and why

if the pillars/Djed were inspired by a Birkeland Current / Plasma Discharge then others would have recorded them as petroglyphs. perhaps some of the Pillars/Djeds are the 4 corners of the Earth and perhaps some could be inspired by the events witnessed in the skies at different times as that God King visited or left earth? could there have been 4 immense birkleland pillars that started it?

Also can anyone explain why 4 corners of the earth? i have always wondered about it and it seems a good time to ask. i dont really understand the idea of a flat earth as it would appear that it is rounded wherever you look or walk a long distance. But that might be because i know its a globe. why would they choose it to be a square or oblong?

petroglyphs (rock art) from scandinavia and america - Egyptian Pharaoh images from Book of the Dead (The Dead Coming Forth Into Day) and from carvings in temples/tombs

do the images shown above sort of match up (top one to the bottom one)? especially the one on the right showing a comet planet with its twin tail? even if they are not similar and its just me do they show variations on a theme or different events?

plasma discharges, z-pinches, toroids and toroidal stacks, petroglyphs from Europe and America

the above plasma discharge toroid images are taken from  Anthony L Peratt's great paper Characteristics for the Occurrence of a High-Current, Z-Pinch Aurora as Recorded in Antiquity (large pdf)

does this show how the lines of the Djed could have been inspired by a plasma disharge and the toroids?

is it a mixture of everything? the belief of pillars holding up the sky, from a previous catastrophe encounter with a God King and when the Pillars disappeared the sky collapsed on them? so they then draw the 4 pillars and over the years it changes as the eye witnesses die and there are only carvings or oral traditions that can not match what was seen and might change over the years? then the next God King appears and it would be different this time and each time...

[electrobleme]

Maybe Osiris was the magnetosphere of Venus. Then dust and water would have been held by the double layer around Venus.

While looking for images of the Djed Pillar i came across this Egyptian scene of a Djed Pillar and what looks to be the Comet Venus on the top of it - as shown/described in the "Comet Venus Book" by gary gilligan.  electrobleme

It is interesting that the Djed pillar is at an angle in both the Dendra image and the image out of Gary's book above. Also the white dress and the red sash of the woman on the left becomes the red dress with a white sash of the Djed column.

Let's have a punt. If that is Venus on top of the Djed column then the column would represent a Birkeland current from the Sun going through the magnetosphere of Venus. Thus the rings around the column would be voltage step-down regions or possibly dust rings around Venus being lit up by the current. Now if Venus was only a few weeks from conjunction this column would appear to rise some time in the morning and appear at an angle to the horizon. It would then appear to rise up into the sky and straighten up with respect to the horizon. Now because the conjunction, Sun - Venus - Earth, would be a perilous time on Earth the rise of the Djed would be carefully noted so as to calculate the conjunction. This would be a good time to head underground for a day or two.

I'll admit that this is wild, however this conjunction, and the movement of Earth through the tail of the comet Venus, must have been incredibly significant to all on Earth. Cold, warm or hot ??  Warm.
Mo

the progression/evolution of plasma discharge instabilities shown as the squatter (squatting) man in petroglyphs? or are these multiple plasma discharges / squatting men as the pillars holding up the earth and the heavens?
do the squatter man legs at the bottom show the triangle at the base of the Djed shown further down the page?

different phases of plasma discharges and instabilities as petroglyphs

does the Djed Pillar on the right especially show the ^ or triangle at the bottom of the plasma discharges (squatter man)? is the right image showing the birkeland current/discharge combined together? is the sash/belt the birkeland current or twisting/interlocking snake like a coil with the dress now become larger as the visibile sheath? the discharge making the colours change?

does this series of petroglyphs show a squatter lady/man, further great detail of an birkeland current as a plasma instability or the pillars holding up the heavens? note the triangle or base at the bottom and the traditional squatting man legs coming out of it

[electrobleme]

the serpent/snake worshipped and mentioned by the ancients, was it a plasma discharge seen in the skies, a twisting birkeland current, the visual evidence of the energised fields, the space lattice, the...

Book of the Dead of Heruben, Egyptian Gods and the serpent or plasma discharge / birkeland current? the 4 pillars holding up the heavens?


the serpent / plasma discharge as a petroglyph (rock art) and how it progresses/forms into a plasma discharge column? Are these images of one of the earths Axis Mundi, the sky tower/mountain or was that something totally different? is the serpent a seperate discharge seen in the sky or coming from them?



"Dendera Light" in Egypt - showing the center of one of the pillars of heavens? the birkeland current of a plasma discharge? a plasma discharge in the electricfied band of dust/debris encircling the earth in the God King Scenario and Comet Venus ideas? the Djed (the 4 pillars) and also the God King equally or at the same time holding up the Heavens?



helical instabilites (plasma columns) from anthony peratt - do they show the serpent/snake seen in the skies by the ancient people ?

[Mo]

That the Djed was a stack of toroids electrically produced, seems beautiful to me. If Venus was a comet then  finding such a stack of toroids in the Venusian magnetospere looks OK. Now as Venus came into conjunction this stack of toroids might change character dramatically as a greatly increased current formed. A likely candidate for the new configuration would be the stable fourfold configuration. So I am happy with the four pillars being this pattern. Also Venus would be in line with the Sun at this time, so one would expect the Sun to feature along with the four pillars, although the brightness of the interplanetary discharge might hide the Sun.

The assumption that the petroglyphs were drawn at the same time period as the Egyptian civilisation needs consideration. I think they came from a much earlier period, even before the ice ages. The time of the collapse of the previous civilisation, and the survivors in the mountains etching what they saw in the skies. These etchings show the plasma configurations of the stick man and the stacked toroids. But they would not be the same as what the Egyptians saw, in my view.
Mo

[electrobleme]

The assumption that the petroglyphs were drawn at the same time period as the Egyptian civilisation needs consideration. I think they came from a much earlier period, even before the ice ages. The time of the collapse of the previous civilisation, and the survivors in the mountains etching what they saw in the skies. These etchings show the plasma configurations of the stick man and the stacked toroids. But they would not be the same as what the Egyptians saw, in my view.
Mo

yep Mo, it seems lots of catastrophes have struck the earth, so each time will be different or the people will see/leave different records. the various images posted seem to back up bits of the EU ideas on ancient plasma discharges/catastrophes and also what people say about the 4 pillars of heaven.

how we work out what/when is another matter and i dont think will ever be conclusively proved but as long as we consider all logical options with a continually open mind then we have to move forward together, slowly but surely. we are also  less likely to miss a piece of evidence, logic or idea that could be vital.

it would be good to eventually get peoples opinions or build up timelines of what/when.

i have actually ordered a couple of books by Rens Van der Sluijs (The Mythology of the World Axis and The World Axis as an Atmospheric Phenomenon) hoping it might help me to start to date or put in order some of these events/images. of course if Rens and Peratt cant or have not dated/ordered the petroglyphs then i have no chance!

Also, its a long shot, but i emailed Rens today asking if he might have a look at what has been said about the Djed/plasma/pillars and the images to see if he can also impart his words of wisdom on the subject matter of the 4 heavenly pillars. worth a shot at goal i thought more ideas and knowledge cant hurt unless he disagrees with everything i say then i will just delete his posts and ban him from the forum - mainstream science style

[kevin]

IMHO,
The four pillars will be the solstices and equinox times.
Kevin

[The Aten]

Also can anyone explain why 4 corners of the earth? i have always wondered about it and it seems a good time to ask. i dont really understand the idea of a flat earth as it would appear that it is rounded wherever you look or walk a long distance. But that might be because i know its a globe. why would they choose it to be a square or oblong?

I think perhaps the earth was believed to be round and flat and then we have the natural four cardinal points, or ‘four quarters’ as supported by the following. 

“Various cultures have had conceptions of a flat Earth, including ancient Babylon, Ancient Egypt, pre-Classical Greece and pre-17th century China. This view contrasts with the realization first recorded around the 4th century BC by natural philosophers of Classical Greece that the Earth is spherical” (wiki)

“The ancient Egyptians imagined the world to be a far different place from what we now know it to be. They believed the earth was a flat platter of clay afloat on a vast sea of water from which the Nile River sprung” http://www.carnegiemnh.org/exhibitions/egypt/guide.htm

Inscriptions.

“The subjugator of the adversary, rich in years, great in victories, who reacheth the ends of the earth when seeking for battle, who maketh narrow the wide mouth of foreign princes.”

“The good god, the strong one, whom men praise, the lord, in whom men make their boast; who protecteth his soldiers, who maketh his boundaries on earth as he will, like Re when he shineth over the circle of the world, he, the king of Upper and Lower Egypt (Erman 1927, 258-9).”

The phrase "circle of the world" indicates that the Egyptians viewed the earth as a disk which the sun-god shines over on its daily journey. There is another similar phrase in The War Against the Peoples of the Sea which comes from Ramses III’ temple of Medinet Habu at Thebes which says, "They laid their hands upon the lands as far as the circuit of the earth" (ANET 1969, 262).

The flat earth belief is supported by a Babylonian clay tablet dated to around 700 BC (?). This shows a map of the world as a flat disk surrounded by a world ocean.



“It depicts a "bird's-eye" view of the world and shows a flat, round world with the city of Babylon in the centre i.e., the "hub" of the world.” http://members.westnet.com.au/Gary-David-Thompson/page11-11.html. The flat earth belief persisting despite the Babylonians being well versed in astronomy.

Why four corners?

We have the natural division of the cardinal points and four would be the natural number of posts required to hold up the heavens.
Many Mesopotamian god kings adopted the title “King of the four corners of the universe” (i.e. Naram-Sin, who I associate with the Moon). A very apt title given the Moon traversed the four corners of the earth in a much shorter cycle than the Sun.

The Royal inscription of king Tukulti-Ninurta says:

“Tukulti-Ninurta, king of the universe, king of Assyria, strong king, king of the four quarters, chosen of Ashur, vice-regent of Ashur, the king whose deeds are pleasing to the gods of heaven (and) underworld and to whom they allotted the four corners of the earth, (the king whom) they allowed to always exercise rule in the (four) quarters and who conquered all those who did not submit to him (Grayson 1972, 1:105).”

The phrase "king of the four quarters" according to Grayson (1972, 1:4) is "the Sumero-Akkadian expression for 'king of the world'." Grayson goes on to say, "The four 'quarters' or 'coasts' are approximately identical with the cardinal points of the compass and are the extremities of the world (which was believed to be a disc) projecting out into the primeval sea (which was believed to surround the world disc)."

The phrase "four corners of the earth" which in Akkadian is kap-pat tu-bu-qa-at erbitti, can literally be translated "the circle of the four corners" (Grayson 1972, 105; CAD K, 397-400). This is a clear reference to the earth being circular. It seems strange that a circle would also have corners, but they meant the extremities in the four cardinal directions. http://www.bibleandscience.com/bible/books/genesis/genesis1_circleearth.htm

GG: The key to understanding ancient cultures here is to strip yourself of any preconceived ideas, walk outside and look as the world through childlike eyes (with my childlike brain I’m good at this  ). This reveals a flat earth with heaven appearing as a hammered-out bowl or hemispherical dome canopying earth. The earth appears fixed and unmoving; we have no sense of the earth turning, it is the sun and the heavens that revolve around the flat earth.

We also have to take into account that the AE’s (as all) were a primitive and somewhat barbaric race as evidenced by the fact that they strangulated and burned cats and ibises, they decapitated crocodiles, burnt fish, nailed falcons to poles, etc. and, to top this, they kept slaves (source; Animal Mummies, Discovery Channel). 

Sure in later times some clever Greeks (approx. 3rd century BC) worked out the earth was round but the majority of people couldn’t even begin to comprehend this - their common sense notion wouldn't allow it. 
   
Gary Gilligan

[electrobleme]

cheers and thanks gary, great post/reply about the 4 corners.  as you say we have to remember what the ancients knew or didnt know. some civilisations may have been more intune with the natural powers of the universe than us today but they may not have known what we know today.

i think this is a really important point that i have to keep reminding myself, its not to veiw things standing in our world, looking about saying how could it have happened, its to remember and imagine what their world was like and what were they like. this is why i think having certain base scenarios will help. if there is an event and you can instantly think what would have happened (and the conditions) in a saturnian configuration, God King scenario, Velikovsky it will help me to get instantly into the ancients mind frame, experience and world environment

here below is a real basic summary/points of what i think has been suggested or implied with recent discussiona about the Djed Pillars. please let me know if you agree or disagree and what you think it should say. also what names to call them etc

Djed - God King Scenario
Djed are the 4 Pillars/columns holding up the world, represented by the Ancient Egyptians as the Djed Pillar with the lines at the top showing 4 in one

Djed - Venus
Djed was a Plasma Discharge toroid stack involving Venus when it was in an alignment or Planetary Discharge event

Djed - lattice
The four pillars are the solstices and equinox times

Djed - Birkelands
The Djed or 4 pillars were Plasma Discharges or Birkeland Currents. one (with toroids) or multiple "pillars", also likely to have been witnessed a number of times in our skies

[electrobleme]

I perhaps need to clarify to aten My comprehension of the serpent symbols?
I am a dowser( and regard the Egyptians as masters of such)
I detect a lattice matrix that creates in local isolation polygon shapes that radiate out from a finite point.
They are created by never ending lines( sheets with no top or bottom or ends)
But in isolation polygons, and these polygons all overlap each other and have STUFF (plasma) circulating each polygon around the finite point.
Each adjoining polygon has opposite spin circulations to its neighbours.
Flowing along each line are variable strength flows that are all symbiotically responding to the positions of all heavenly mass, they rise and fall relative to the resistance imparted along the carrier lines as mass crosses them thus causing rise and fall in flow strengths( harmonic resonance)

If your an odd ball like myself that can follow these flows along their strongest flow routes( think how rivers and their streams feed into each other, but think in reverse where the plasma disipates out to every blade of grass)
then as You follow these flows they circulate in opposite direction each polygon they encounter and thus lead to snake pattern pathways for the sensitive to follow.

I also find flows on top of each other going in opposite direction, and only coming together at certain points.
The thing is it gives Me a unique glimpse of the meanings of what is left in symbol forms, and especially how the serpents can be manipulated, and the consequences of all of this.
kevin

i had always thought the dna structure was a perfect double helix shape, it looked like the image on the left shown below. it seems though that it or variations of it are not so geometrically perfect. it might just literally be a point of view thing, depending on what angle you look at it from. but the difference between a "perfect spiral" shape and what it may be is very important.

when looking into kevins posts and ideas (not just the one quoted above but about shapes/fields/lattice) and what he says about polygons i discovered the dna images. i agree with kevin about the polygon, or the powergons as i think of them, as an energy thing. i have seen a lot of things in nature seem to revert or form the powergon shape. From drying mud, the Waffle Rock and the Giants Causeway, even the surface of the living Pitch Lake in Trinidad forms polygons/powergons.

gEUlogy also seems to also fit into this. The very puzzling JohnPeel (Krystal Rock) feature on Sliema seafront in Malta is perhaps a gEUlogy powergon, it is not fully circular and the quartz around its edges has formed some straight lines (that page will be updated one day to show this and other stuff). Also a Birth of Rock area, where you can find the outdoor stalagmites, would seem to be another powergon. I even once saw a documentary where octopuses would dig a polygon shape in the sandy sea floor bed. was it to use the natural power you might be able to get from a powergon?

i am not sure if these images show what i mean or have seen, maybe i should have chosen some other images but anyway they will do for now.

dna structure - double helix - "birkeland currents"?

why do we get the spiral shape? what is it exactly that forms the spiral shape and makes nature want to create/form it?

dna strand/strucure or cell/body "birkeland currents"?

are either edges of the dna strand parts of the powergons, if you have each strand with its own powergon and multiple layers of the lattice/field would they form the spiral?

high energy plasma discharges - anthony peratt

these are experimental higher energy plasma discharges as shown before. they appear to show not a perfect spiral but very similar to the dna structure

Double Helix Nebula (Birkeland or DNA nebula?)

The image above shows the Double Helix Nebula or could it be known as the Birkeland Nebula or DNA Nebula?

[electrobleme]

JohnPeel or Krystal Rock on the beachfront, Tower Road, Sliema, Malta. Photo on left shows a photograph taken from the Surfside Restaurant and how this strange for geology feature stands out on the beachfront. The photo on the right shows the distinct massive quartz line that defines this outside part. notice how straight it runs then curves.



the outside of JohnPeel showing its polygon/powergon nature? where energy/material was pinched inside or concentrated around and that is why it has formed this shape?


for the article and more information about JohnPeel Rock on Sliema beach click here

for further photographs on JohnPeel Rock beside Tower Road Sliema clickhere

[electrobleme]

Rens van der Sluijs was kind enough to reply about the Djed we have been discussing. This is what he said

"All I can say is that the single Djed pillar as well as the theme of the four sky pillars are acknowledged manifestations of the axis mundi and are likely to have been ultimately derived from visible near-earth plasmas. Whether those plasmas had anything to do with cometary activity I don't know - too early to be certain, methinks." Rens van der Sluijs

[kevin]

I love the word polygon.
Look to the steps around multiple so called crosses in villages all over England, I will try and find a picture of one with george slaying the dragon on top of such a polygon spot(Earthing the flows?)
the polygons are created by straight lines, endless such lines , but where they cross other in geometric brilliance they form polygons around a central point, they always radiate out from that central point in increments of 13 inch enlargements( as do fairy rings)
The straight lines are SMOOTHED out by the plasma flowing around the polygons, but the really high, like really high frequecies are the straight lines( phase conjugate optical lasers?)
I waded out at extra low tide to a similer feature in Penzance bay near St Michaels .
The castle up there is polygons and polygons, even the dairy building half way up is polygons, in days of old when knights were bold, polygons were recognised?
Kevin

[kevin]

I have been to this one several times, now where else is this George involved with, Oh Yes Malta.
And what does he do?He slays the dragon?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moreton-in-Marsh_and_Batsford_War_Memorial
He Earths the dragon, whatever this site is now , it is positioned precisely, very precisely , and the lines are exactly as the steps mirror, and I know very ancient ones, very ancient indeed, sometimes the predominate geometry is a squre, but frequently polygons.
Kevin